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Please don't take this reply

#77819 On Wednesday, February 20, 2008 Guest (not verified) said,

Please don't take this reply personally, but I feel compelled to respond as this type of reply is so very indicative of the specious and vapid responses found here...

I've challenged anyone to rebut my argument(s) based on hard science...
And yet, you still insist on appealing to emotion rather than logic, reason, common sense and honest science to back your claims/feelings.
Essentially, your argument still falls into the "It stinks, and I don't like it, so it should be banned and eliminated" category...

You said it yourself in your reply: "However, whether second hand smoke is harmful or not, it sucks!!! It stinks and is extremely gross.". You further go on to say "Second hand smoke may not cause someone to suffer a life threatening illness, but there are people who have allergies where cigarette smoke makes them physically ill for the moment.", which is also an appeal to emotion rather than scientific fact.
And further, it's an attempt to change the subject.
Essentially, what you're saying is: "It's not life-threatening harmful, but it is harmful because of allergies".
Again, no scientific evidence presented, just an emotion laden OPINION.
I have yet to find a competent allergist or internist who would be willing to subject a diagnosis of this kind (being "allergic" to cigarette smoke) to rigorous, scientific experimentation and peer reviewed critique. Smoke of any kind is an irritant, but smoke is in itself, not an allergen.
The fact is, no-one can seem to draw any conclusion that exposure to cigarette smoke in-utero or outside the womb is even a contributing factor to increased susceptibility to actual allergens or asthma.
http://pmj.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/76/901/694
I'll quote the paper here:
"Maternal smoking is believed to increase asthmatic symptoms but its influence on the development of allergen sensitisation is debatable."
(Let me translate this for you: "We want to make the claim that smoking is hazardous, but we can't find ANY hard evidence to back our claim".)
And further in the "RESULTS" section of the abstract, it goes on to say: "Maternal smoking did not increase allergen sensitisation at age 4 years. No effect of paternal smoking on asthma was observed in the children."
Re-read that; "did NOT increase allergen sensitisation", and "NO EFFECT of paternal smoking on asthma was observed in the children.".
Well, go figure...

Then you try misdirection, obfuscation, and changing the subject again with "I don't have a problem with people smoking. I have a problem with people denying the fact that they smell bad and their world around them smells bad because of it."
I've not seen any post here claiming that smoking smells good.
And obviously, you DO INDEED have issues with smoking and smokers; otherwise you wouldn't be reading this page or responding at all. Only those with a vested stake in the issue (or a deep and abiding love for the truth) will bother to take the time to comment.

The ultimate issue of importance is that a "class" of people are being subjected to having their rights slowly and systematically stripped from them based on the false argument that "second-hand" or E.T.S. smoke is harmful. I've presented evidence that it is not. I have yet to have anyone rebut what has been presented with any hard science to the contrary.
Instead, I keep getting the same type of response: "I don't like it, so therefore, smokers must change."

Allow me to posit a scenario that might further elucidate the issue(s) at hand:

What if all of the vegans/vegetarians of the United States banded together and then decided to lobby Congress, fund dubious "scientific studies", and come to the conclusion that the smoke and fumes from cooking beef "posed a threat to public health", and then, as a consequence of this fraud, the beef consumers had to do their beef cooking and consuming outdoors, while simultaneously feeling as if they were a pariah and a blight to society for doing so?
Then, what if the beef consumers found out that the reason that they were forced outside was based on a LIE?

Sarcasm and a dose of justified vitriol over the situation might well be expected.

Just a little something to keep in mind:
Be careful of the rights you decide to trample upon; your rights might be next on the list...

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